tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1977384970015233286.post2016623016094014247..comments2023-11-03T06:13:31.161-04:00Comments on Prince of New York Baseball Blog: I Come To Praise Ichiro, Not To Bury HimPAUL LEBOWITZhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03726846731779145384noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1977384970015233286.post-38015083048509891952010-10-03T20:42:19.035-04:002010-10-03T20:42:19.035-04:00In evaluating Ichiro's approach, you have to r...In evaluating Ichiro's approach, you have to realize that he's been a winner, doing what he does, for the majority of his career. His major league teams have went above .500 for half the years of his career, and his Japanese teams for 6 out of 9 years. Plus, his high school teams were incredible, and Japan is 2 for 2 in the WBC. So a comment he makes implying that he could hit 40 home runs batting .220 (and, presumably, something like 30 and .280) needs to consider that context: Ichiro probably believes that his approach is better for his teams. Although unpopular among Sabermetricians, a lot of baseball people put a lot of stock in batting average. So I doubt his batting approach amounts to placing individual statistics over winning. Plus, the idea that he could hit 40 home runs, although popular among his supporters to tout his traditionalist attitude about batting, is probably false. The guy's 170 lbs., and he's never taken a big, loopy swing in his life. Indeed, what he's doing for the Mariners (offensively) probably does represent the best that he could do for them.Charlesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1977384970015233286.post-12946249374098991762010-10-01T13:58:54.173-04:002010-10-01T13:58:54.173-04:00Hi
I ran across this looking up some stuff on Base...Hi<br />I ran across this looking up some stuff on Baseball Reference as well. Let me preface my comments by saying Ichiro is my favorite player, I am a lifelong Mariner's fan, and I am totally biased. But, that being that, I think the problem with this argument, and the argument of the army of those who want Ichiro to increase his home run production isn't whether he can do it or not, I'm sure he could, is that is simply not his game. He did work with the M's hitting coaches early in his career to try and bring more power, it didn't work. Also, if Willie McCovey went for more line drives, he may have had a .320 career average, but he didn't. Ichiro is also not a line-drive hitter. He's a slap hitter. It works. You can't say it doesn't because its obvious it does. His accumulated totals since 2001 are up there with the best of them. He's also so good at it, he's led the league in IBB as a slap happy singles hitter! Look at who leads the leagues in that category, its not a leadoff hitter, but one who is feared. I think, just in terms of hitting, the only person better during that time, when viewed in total, is Pujols. Helton, Rollins, Jeter, A-Rod, Guerrero, look at their total numbers of 10 years, Ichiro is ahead of all of them in every category except RBI's, Homer's, etc. And its not as if those matter much on a losing team anyway. A-Rod had huge numbers in Texas, it didn't make a difference. <br />Let's say Ichiro hit third, and he hit 30 home runs a season, and as a line drive hitter perhaps created another 60. I would think Ichiro, in that manner, might hit similar to Raoul Ibanez, 90-100 RBI's, 25-35 home runs, and perhaps be able to pad his BA in blow outs. But it wouldn't improve the team. Figgins was a disaster for most of the season. Ichiro is probably the second or third best leadoff hitter in history. He's easlily in the top 5. You don't replace him with a Chone Figgins. However, that's also overrated. A leadoff hitter leads off an inning maybe twice a game if he's lucky. What he does get is more opportunities in the average game to come to the plate and get on base. The key number here is Times On Base and games played. That is what Ichiro excels at, and the only players in his league have been Pujols, Helton, Jeter, Rolling, very few, and that is what the Mariner's have failed to build a team around. He's in the lineup every day, getting on base. The failure isn't Ichiro's. You need to look at his Times on Base and compare that to his runs scored. Over that last six years, the gap is astounding. He gets on base, but doesn't score. I've been looking, but I don't think anyone has ever had the gap he does between hits and runs scored. That's a failure of the hitters around him. Subtract Ichiro's numbers from the M's totals this year and replace it with the average of the rest of the team, and you have one of the worst hitting teams in MLB history. 25 home runs wouldnt help that. Especially with Chone Figgins hitting .260 in leadoff, followed by someone hitting .200, then Ichiro at maybe .300, then another .225 hitter, so on, so forth. Why, oh why, aren't you demanding that Figgins hit more line drives?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1977384970015233286.post-87786798786362424322010-09-30T20:30:59.393-04:002010-09-30T20:30:59.393-04:00The really ironic part about this is that you cond...The really ironic part about this is that you condemn Ichiro for being selfish (never mind the interviews where he says that it's his job as a leadoff hitter to get hits, and so he gets hits to help the team win). But then you compare him unfavorably to Pete Rose, who was arguably one of the most selfish players ever to play the game. Let's be honest, here: Rose would never have broken Cobb's record if he hadn't been his own manager those last two years. Add to that the fact that he gambled on the game and is now whining about the fact that it got him banned (never mind the fact that all players are told that they're not allowed to bet on baseball, and that such an action will have consequences)...<br /><br />"Rose had 10-hr seasons in his prime." So has Ichiro. Only three of them, so far, but then again he's playing in a park that's a bit more spacious than Riverfront. Not much more, granted. But if you look at their careers, Ichiro averages 9 HR per 162 games. Rose averaged 7. Rose's "isolated power" (slugging minus average) for his career was .106, hardly the mark of a slugger. Granted, Ichiro's is even lower at .099, but to gripe about Ichiro's lack of power while pointing at Rose's power is rather ludicrous.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1977384970015233286.post-64102984926544145452010-09-30T20:30:51.934-04:002010-09-30T20:30:51.934-04:00Talk about damning him with faint praise. Your wh...Talk about damning him with faint praise. Your whole argument boils down to "he's really good, but he would be even better if he'd just play like I want him to play." Have you ever considered the possibility that, as Ichiro says, his average would drop a <b>lot</b> if he were to swing for the fences? Guys who hit .220 don't generally stick in the majors very long, no matter how much power they're showing.<br /><br />You talk about Pete Rose's versatility, even to the fact that he earned two gold gloves in the outfield despite coming up as a second baseman. That's all very well and good, but Ichiro's been a gold glover every single season he's been in the majors. He's put up fielding numbers that are better than Rose ever got in the outfield, so why should he make a radical position shift?<br /><br />Yes, he prefers to play right field, but he's played roughly two seasons in center without making a stink about it in the media. You (and others like you) imply--or even flat out state--that it was Ichiro's unhappiness over being moved to center that led to Hargrove's retirement. A nice, dramatic scenario, but consider this: Ichiro continued playing center for the rest of the season after Hargrove retired. He even played center for almost half of the following season. <b>If</b> Ichiro's unhappiness over playing center were truly the reason Hargrove was "forced" into retirement, wouldn't McLaren's first priority have been to move him back to right, so that Ichiro didn't passive-aggressively force his retirement as well?<br /><br />You say you want denials from all involved. Why? Some people are going to believe what they want to believe regardless of the facts or logic involved, and from the tone of these two posts, I have to believe you're one of them. Look how much time and energy the Democratic Party has had to waste trying to convince some of the ridiculous right that Obama was born in Hawaii or that he is Christian. Look how much time and energy the Republicans wasted in trying to convince some of the lunatic left that Trig really was Sarah Palin's baby.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1977384970015233286.post-26788976865746223772010-09-30T20:30:15.644-04:002010-09-30T20:30:15.644-04:00Talk about damning him with faint praise. Your wh...Talk about damning him with faint praise. Your whole argument boils down to "he's really good, but he would be even better if he'd just play like I want him to play." Have you ever considered the possibility that, as Ichiro says, his average would drop a <b>lot</b> if he were to swing for the fences? Guys who hit .220 don't generally stick in the majors very long, no matter how much power they're showing.<br /><br />You talk about Pete Rose's versatility, even to the fact that he earned two gold gloves in the outfield despite coming up as a second baseman. That's all very well and good, but Ichiro's been a gold glover every single season he's been in the majors. He's put up fielding numbers that are better than Rose ever got in the outfield, so why should he make a radical position shift?<br /><br />Yes, he prefers to play right field, but he's played roughly two seasons in center without making a stink about it in the media. You (and others like you) imply--or even flat out state--that it was Ichiro's unhappiness over being moved to center that led to Hargrove's retirement. A nice, dramatic scenario, but consider this: Ichiro continued playing center for the rest of the season after Hargrove retired. He even played center for almost half of the following season. <b>If</b> Ichiro's unhappiness over playing center were truly the reason Hargrove was "forced" into retirement, wouldn't McLaren's first priority have been to move him back to right, so that Ichiro didn't passive-aggressively force his retirement as well?<br /><br />You say you want denials from all involved. Why? Some people are going to believe what they want to believe regardless of the facts or logic involved, and from the tone of these two posts, I have to believe you're one of them. Look how much time and energy the Democratic Party has had to waste trying to convince some of the ridiculous right that Obama was born in Hawaii or that he is Christian. Look how much time and energy the Republicans wasted in trying to convince some of the lunatic left that Trig really was Sarah Palin's baby.<br /><br />The really ironic part about this is that you condemn Ichiro for being selfish (never mind the interviews where he says that it's his job as a leadoff hitter to get hits, and so he gets hits to help the team win). But then you compare him unfavorably to Pete Rose, who was arguably one of the most selfish players ever to play the game. Let's be honest, here: Rose would never have broken Cobb's record if he hadn't been his own manager those last two years. Add to that the fact that he gambled on the game and is now whining about the fact that it got him banned (never mind the fact that all players are told that they're not allowed to bet on baseball, and that such an action will have consequences)...<br /><br />"Rose had 10-hr seasons in his prime." So has Ichiro. Only three of them, so far, but then again he's playing in a park that's a bit more spacious than Riverfront. Not much more, granted. But if you look at their careers, Ichiro averages 9 HR per 162 games. Rose averaged 7. Rose's "isolated power" (slugging minus average) for his career was .106, hardly the mark of a slugger. Granted, Ichiro's is even lower at .099, but to gripe about Ichiro's lack of power while pointing at Rose's power is rather ludicrous.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1977384970015233286.post-56955209749858756592010-09-28T22:31:58.114-04:002010-09-28T22:31:58.114-04:00You need to use the word "hopefully" cor...You need to use the word "hopefully" correctly. You wrote, "The thing we can all agree on (hopefully) is that no matter what approach Ichrio takes...". Check with an English professor on the correct use of the word.<br /><br />I hope we can agree that proper use of language is important if one wishes to clearly convey one's thoughts in writing to someone else...Mr. Smarty Pants!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1977384970015233286.post-5990933973101138402010-09-28T01:25:18.504-04:002010-09-28T01:25:18.504-04:00"If Albert Pujols decided one year that he wa..."If Albert Pujols decided one year that he wanted to hit .400, he could do it."<br /><br />This alone is one of the worst assumptions any supposed "baseball writer" has ever made. Ted Williams' frozen head is rolling on the floor right now...Thomas No"nickname"vikoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02076867398764092317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1977384970015233286.post-57587631767180230412010-09-27T02:50:09.377-04:002010-09-27T02:50:09.377-04:00your a red sox fan?
you have my condolences.
but...your a red sox fan?<br /><br />you have my condolences.<br /><br />but i digress.<br /><br />all this hating on ichiro.<br /><br />can't we just appreciate his feat and marvel at his athletic ability.<br /><br />i mean the guy is a class act, he plays hard, you can forgive him for being a little disheartened considering he has been on such a horrible team for years.<br /><br />stay solid ichiro, it will come full circle when you play for the yankees next year!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1977384970015233286.post-52289273053845033182010-09-26T02:35:38.632-04:002010-09-26T02:35:38.632-04:00Identify yourself. Step into the light Son! Put ...Identify yourself. Step into the light Son! Put a name behind them thar comments. ~ (Capo)BrooklynTrolleyBloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09704760727364587466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1977384970015233286.post-53128350491963174882010-09-25T22:10:40.669-04:002010-09-25T22:10:40.669-04:00[quote]but you're a fool if you think the stra...[quote]but you're a fool if you think the strategy of pitching and defense was anything more than an excuse to execute a larger plan of moving forward[/quote]<br /><br />What was their larger plan of moving forward? Constructing a team that would score runs in bunches? Would catch the heck out of the ball? And give up less runs than they score? By a wide margin?<br /><br />And since we're talking about bullpens and the 2003 Boston Red Sox, do you know how many runs that Embree, Timlin, and Williamson had given up in the playoffs, up until game 7 of the alcs? One. Go count the number of innings they pitched in the ALDS and ALCS (it was a lot), and they gave up one run. In fact, Timlin and Embree (key components in 2004) gave up ZERO runs. As the saying goes, "timlin in the 8th, and williamson in the 9th" and the Red Sox would be in the World Series that year. And they sure would have been facing the 101 win Yankees in the ALCS, no matter how the bullpen shaked out earlier in the season.<br /><br />So, yeah, I blame Grady Little, because "Too Little Too Late" (his nickname all year, as he tended to leave his starters in too long) refused to go to an excellent bullpen at the right time. An excellent bullpen that Theo Epstein constructed for Grady Little to utilize.<br /><br />I'm really not sure how Theo gaffe'd or how I straddled, especially when presented with the actual facts. Your theories on closer-by-committe can not be proved, nor can we determine that the Red Sox or any other team could be successful with this model. It comes down to the talent, and early in the season, pitchers like Chad Fox did not have the talent. That's why Theo went out and got Williamson and Kim. Then you combine that with pitchers performing at their career levels (Embree and Timlin), and you have a bullpen that was perfrectly fine.<br /><br />Please, if you are going to respond, use more facts and be accurate about them. Thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1977384970015233286.post-53964462664085100212010-09-25T22:02:30.810-04:002010-09-25T22:02:30.810-04:00[quote]To suggest that the Jason Bay failure in Ne...[quote]To suggest that the Jason Bay failure in New York automatically implies that the Red Sox were "right" in letting him go is a logical fallacy. Bay had already proven himself as a Red Sox; Cameron has been an injury-plagued disaster. All are tied in with one another.[/quote]<br /><br />What do you mean by saying that Bay had "proven himself" as a Red Sox. Sure, maybe in the past (keyword here is past). The Red Sox were calculating his future worth (keyword here is future). What Bay had proven in the past was irrelevant, other than a baseline. By all accounts, the Red Sox did not feel that Bay was worth the money he wanted or what the Mets paid. This is indisputable, because the Red Sox did not give hime the contract that he wanted, nor did they match the Mets. So, in this sense, I would say that Theo was "right". What complicates matters, is that Bay went to a ballpark that absolutely saps the power of their hitters and he ended up getting a concussion. So, we'll never know what a healthy Bay, or a Bay in a better ballpark would have produced. But, I'd probably side with Theo on this one. Bay is on the wrong side of 30, there were questions about his health (I believe the concern was his knees), and what the Mets will be the ones paying for is his decline years. This is why Minaya will most likely be gone after the season. Poor contracts such as this one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1977384970015233286.post-28835233879366457422010-09-25T22:02:22.080-04:002010-09-25T22:02:22.080-04:00First, let's get some facts straight:
1. Jaco...First, let's get some facts straight:<br /><br />1. Jacoby Ellsbury did not crash into the wall. Jacoby Ellsbury collided with a player (Adrian Beltre).<br /><br />2. Colliding with a player can happen at any position, not just left field.<br /><br />3. In 2010, the Red Sox spent more money on player salaires, than they have during any other year in the history of the Boston Red Sox.<br /><br />OK, so we've got some indisputable facts out of the way. Let's get to some of what you wrote:<br /><br />[quote]The signing of Mike Cameron and shifting of Jacoby Ellsbury to left field are two of the proximate causes of the Red Sox ills this season----had they not signed Cameron to take over in center field, Ellsbury wouldn't have been in left field to crash into the wall and injure himself to begin with.[/quote]<br /><br />Where are you going with this? I agree, Ellsbury (and Cameron, and Youkilis, and Pedroia, and Beckett, and Martinez, and Varitek, and so on) are some of the proximate causes of the Red Sox ills this season. Meaning, the ridiculous amount of injuries, and injuries to key players (it reads like an all-star team), was one of the major reasons, if not the reason why the Red Sox will miss the playoffs (although, it's funny, if the Sox were in the AL West they would be in the playoffs). But, it seems to me that you are using these injuries as a condemnation of Theo's offseason strategy. How? Were the Red Sox supposed to forsee this? Maybe you could argue Cameron isn't the type of player that will miss time during the regular season, but to tear his abdominal muscle? And the rest of the players? Ellsbury, Youkilis, Pedroia had no injury history whatsoever. In fact, all three were freak, season ending injuries.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1977384970015233286.post-64863755919044727282010-09-25T22:01:40.291-04:002010-09-25T22:01:40.291-04:00hrmmm, my posts got all screwed up. So you won...hrmmm, my posts got all screwed up. So you won't know what fact #3 is. Here is the start of my Red Sox response ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1977384970015233286.post-15158786037738205972010-09-25T21:58:59.547-04:002010-09-25T21:58:59.547-04:00[quote]This was all part of another plot by the Re...[quote]This was all part of another plot by the Red Sox to transition from what they were while saving money and having an explanation for doing it. [/quote]<br /><br />Saving money? See Fact #3. The Red Sox spent over $170M in player salaries in 2010. Never have they spent that much before. Could it be that the Red Sox felt that their offense would be plenty fine (even without Bay), and that they should focus their offseason dollars on "pitching and defense"? And the fact that the Red Sox are third in all of baseball in runs scored, even with players like Darnell McDonald, Daniel Nava, Ryan Kalish, Eric Patterson, Kevin Cash, and Josh Reddick (all players that were forced into action because of the ridiculous amount of injuries) proves that out.<br /><br />And really, not only did they get a substantial dropoff in runs scored (boy it would be amazing to see what a healthy Red Sox line up would produce), their defense absolutely suffered because of it. And when the defense suffers (so they never got the "defense" part of the equation), their objective was never met. So, all the injuries were a double whammy. Less runs scored and more runs given up!!<br /><br />So, really, I don't think the Red Sox need an explanation for constructing a team, that if they were healthy, most likely is competing or would have had the best record in baseball. In fact, if you analyze the team, you'd see how well-rounded that team really was. Great offense, great defense (an outfield of ellsbury, cameron, drew, an infield of beltre, pedroia, and youkilis - wow), and great pitching (Lester, Buccholz, etc). I'd say the only weak point was the bullpen, especially after Papelbon's poor (for his standards) season. But, that's something the Sox, I'm sure of, could have addressed at the trade deadlines, if the team wasn't dropping like flies at the time. You don't think the Red Sox could have thrown the same cash at Kerry Wood that the Yankees did? Or would they have given up a bounty for Scott Downs? Maybe, if the Red Sox knew that their players would actually be able to compete they would have done that. Or did they realize that the team wouldn't be as good as the one that contains Dustin Pedroia instead of Yamaico Navarro?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1977384970015233286.post-19321111988020495042010-09-25T21:51:44.207-04:002010-09-25T21:51:44.207-04:00I'm back and I'm famous! Quoted by the Pr...I'm back and I'm famous! Quoted by the Prince himself!<br /><br />First, let me clarify, I was wating my time because I'm not a Mariners fan. Although I think Ichrio is a good player, it's not really worth my time trying to defend him. But, when it comes to my team (the Red Sox), that caught my interest, and I have no problem debating that topic (or in my case, rabidly forthing at the mouth).<br /><br />And in regards to your last response (re: Ichiro), I don't know what to say. I'm still not that interested in defending Ichiro, and I can see that you continue to make plenty of assumptions of the abilites of players. What you or the player or some writer thinks they can do, and what can actually be accomplished, often times doesn't or won't match. Really, we'll just have to agree to disagree. For example, I don't think that Albert Pujols can "decide" to hit 400. You, apparently do. That means we are so far apart on how to approach this subject, that we would never come to any conclusion.<br /><br />But, to answer some of your questions:<br /><br />1. Yes, Ichiro is providing pelnty to the Mariners. He's one of the few, offensively, that is.<br /><br />2. Yes, I'm sure that teams are sitting around and wondering how they're going to deal with Ichiro. I'm pretty sure they are evaluating how to get every single player in the lineup out.<br /><br />3. Yes, the approach Ichiro takes would influence the other teams plan of attack. But, that doesn't imply that one approach is better than the other.<br /><br />The thing we can all agree on (hopefully) is that no matter what approach Ichrio takes, that Mariners team would be destined to lose 100 games. Period. The problem is not Ichiro. The problem is that terrible roster, minus Ichrio and King Felix and maybe a couple of other people I'm not thinking about. Speaking of which, how do you feel about King Felix? Let me guess, he doesn't "know how to win" and thus, isn't deserving of the Cy young? And that CC does know how to win (except when he gets rocked by the Rays with the AL East title on the line)? To be clear on my end, King Felix is the best pitcher in baseball and should absolutely win the Cy Young.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1977384970015233286.post-85397955926540808962010-09-25T13:09:19.745-04:002010-09-25T13:09:19.745-04:00Wow. This Ichiro thing turned out to be very enter...Wow. This Ichiro thing turned out to be very entertaining. Is that the reason you landed in Twitter jail last night?She-Fanhttp://janeheller.mlblogs.comnoreply@blogger.com